Grievance Update – Delays: When Do We Drop

This message is for pre-merger LAX and SEA based Hawaiian Flight Attendants

Delays: When Do We Drop

Flight crews dealing with lengthy delays often ask the question: “When do we drop?”

For Flight Attendants, this generally means: At what point does the delay make us contractually unable to take the flight?

Delays and irregular operations can be layered and complex, and there are many different contractual provisions that may trigger removal from a trip depending on the circumstances.

This communication is focused specifically on one scenario: you have reported for your trip, your flight is delayed, and the delay may cause you to time out.

Other circumstances may involve different contractual protections or removal provisions.

IMPORTANT NOTE: All examples in this communication use a 16:00-hour maximum duty period because all current LAX and SEA flying is staffed with standard crews [Section 7.C.2.b.].

For flights staffed with an augmented crew [Section 7.C.2.d.], the applicable maximum duty period increases. Be sure to use the maximum duty period that applies to your specific crew staffing when calculating your Drop Time.

In Solidarity,

Council 47 Grievance Committee
47.grievance@afahawaiian.org

SEA Pulse Form (anonymous)
LAX Pulse Form (anonymous)
Council 47 SEA Committee Contact Roster

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Drop Time

The “Drop Time” is the time at which the crew is projected to exceed its applicable maximum duty period and will no longer be legal to take the flight (also known as timing out).

During delays and while the “Drop Time” approaches, the First Flight Attendant and Crew Scheduling should remain in constant communication to ensure everyone is aware of the timeline and proper planning can take place.

If the boarding door is closed prior to your “Drop Time”, you are legal to take the flight.

Please also remember that reaching your “Drop Time” does not mean you have reached your maximum duty hours. If you are no longer legal to take the flight, you may still remain on duty and be used for duties such as boarding until you reach your applicable maximum duty hours. You are not released from duty until Crew Scheduling has released you.

🌴Los Angeles

For LAX Flight Attendants, there are two different calculations depending on the scheduled duty period of your pairing: duty periods scheduled at 14 hours or less, and duty periods scheduled over 14 hours. [Section 7.C.2.b and LAX LOA 1]

If your scheduled duty period is 14 hours or less, the basic calculation is:

Original Report Time + Max Duty (16:00) − Checkout (:15) − Bid Packet Block Time + :01 = Drop Time

14 hours or less Example:
07:00 Report + 16:00 Maximum Duty − :15 Checkout − 5:11 Bid Packet Block Time + :01 = 17:35 Drop Time
*be sure to convert time zones as necessary*

If your scheduled duty period is over 14 hours, the LAX Domicile Side Letter applies and the calculation is different. Your maximum duty is based on the duty period published in the bid packet plus two hours.

For these pairings, there is a much simpler way to determine your Drop Time:

Take the scheduled departure time of your return flight out of Hawaii and add 2:01.

Over 14 Example:
Scheduled LIH Departure: 12:00 + 2:01 = 14:01 Drop Time
*be sure to convert time zones as necessary*

🏔️ Seattle

For SEA Flight Attendants, the calculation is the same, with one key variable: checkout time.

• Use a :15-minute checkout if your arrival does not require the crew to clear customs.
• Use a :30-minute checkout if your arrival requires the crew to clear customs.

For a STANDARD CREW [Section 7.C.2.b], your basic calculation is:

Original Report Time + Max Duty (16:00) − Checkout (:15 or :30) − Bid Packet Block Time + :01 = Drop Time

Without Customs Example:

For flights without customs, the applicable checkout time is 15 minutes.
15:00 Report + 16:00 Maximum Duty − Checkout (:15) − 6hr11min Bid Packet Block Time + :01 = Drop Time: 00:35 AM (next day)

With Customs Example:
For a flight requiring customs clearance, the checkout time is 30 minutes.
16:15 Report + 16:00 Maximum Duty − Checkout (:30) − 10h45m Bid Packet Block Time + :01 = Drop Time: 21:01

***An extra Flight Attendant added for crew-to-load does not make the crew augmented. The crew is still considered a Standard Crew***

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Overview Reminders

When experiencing a lengthy delay, make sure you know your:

• Original report time
• Max Duty [Section 7.C.2. Standard Crew]
• Originally scheduled departure time [Bid Packet]
• Scheduled bid packet block time [Bid Packet]
• Current rescheduled departure time

Knowing these numbers will help you understand when your crew reaches its contractual limit and answer that familiar question: “When do we drop?”

These calculations determine the point at which you would be projected to exceed your applicable maximum duty period.

If the boarding door is closed prior to your Drop Time, you are legal to take the flight.

An extra Flight Attendant added for crew-to-load does not make the crew augmented. The crew is still considered a Standard Crew

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FAQ

What is the “Drop Time”?

The “Drop Time” is the time at which the crew is projected to time out and be illegal to take their scheduled flight.

Where do I find the information needed to calculate it?

Your report time, scheduled duty period, and scheduled block time can be found in the current month’s bid packet. You Max Duty time is found in Section 7.C.2. for a Standard Crew.

Is everyone’s Drop Time calculated the same way?

No. Your applicable maximum duty, check out time and calculation can vary based on your domicile, scheduled duty period, type of flying, and crew staffing. LAX also has additional provisions under the LAX Domicile Side Letter.

Should I use the estimated delayed flight time for the Drop Time?

No. The calculation uses the scheduled flight time published in the bid packet, not the current estimated or anticipated flight time.

What happens if we reach our Drop Time?

If the boarding door has not closed by the Drop Time, the crew is projected to exceed its applicable maximum duty period and is no longer legal to take the flight.

Does reaching the Drop Time mean I am off duty?

No. You may still remain on duty and be used for duties such as boarding until you reach your applicable maximum duty hours.

Who should be monitoring this?

Flight Attendants should know their applicable limitations. As the Drop time approaches, the First Flight Attendant and Crew Scheduling should remain in communication to ensure proper planning.